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hexe
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Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 70
Location: NE Michigan
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 Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Possible partial seizure |
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| Ray's mom wrote: |
I am a little nervous about giving Ray Pheno as well because of the risk of liver issues.
Once he is settled in I am going to talk to his dr. about supplementing Taurine and reducing the Pheno. |
Milk thistle extract has been shown to be a hepatoprotective agent, and no adverse reactions have been documented save for in individuals who are allergic to the plant. There has been sufficient medical review of it's efficacy to prompt at least on veterinary pharmaceutical company to begin offering a silymarin supplement for patients who need liver support (silymarin being the agent in the milk thistle extract that provides said support). The extract comes in liquid, dried and capsule form, and can be obtained from anyplace that sells vitamins and herbal supplements. I always give this supplement to any dog that's receiving medications that are known to tax the liver, and have seen first-hand the efficacy of the extract in a case of bacterial hepatitis where the liver values were completely off the scales when the dog was diagnosed.
Amount used for hepatic protection/support, per the Veterinary Botanical Medicine Association:
Dried herb--15-20 mg per pound, once daily
Concentrated extract--2-5 mg per pound, two to three times daily
Alcohol extract--2-5 mg per pound, two to three times daily
Minimum of 8 weeks course before expecting results such as improvement in biochemistries.
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Regards,
hexe
<B> "I don't give 'em hell...I tell the truth, and they think it's hell." </B><B><I> -- Harry S Truman</B></I> |
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Yvonne
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Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 427
Location: Alberta
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:32 am Post subject: |
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I kept a log of these episodes for 2 weeks and sent it in to my vet. She got back to me and said that she is going to consult with some other vets/vet behaviourists about possible causes.
I was happy that Monty had gone 10 days with no problems then today he had a small episode right in the middle of a game of fetch. He literally just changed instantly right in front of us and went from happily playing fetch to jumping on the bed, standing stiffly pushed us beside me, scared look on his face. He lost all interest in the ball or any other play. This one was short, only lasted a couple of minutes and he was back to his happy self.
Well I guess we'll wait to see what the vets come up with. |
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Hawiian2
The Chatty Munchkin Administrator
Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 15012
Location: Bethany, CT
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:33 am Post subject: |
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It should be interesting to see what they come up with.
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When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car. |
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Yvonne
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Joined: 13 Nov 2008
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Location: Alberta
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Hawiian2 wrote: |
| It should be interesting to see what they come up with. |
The vet left us a phone message today. I'm not sure if she really understood what i was trying to describe. She said that the behaviorist said it seems to be anxiety and that we should try training Monty to go in a crate at night and have a safe place to be and that we should try using a head halter with him. She said we should train him to go in a crate at night so he won't bother us. The thing is he sleeps on a dog bed on the floor at night and pretty much NEVER bothers us. He knows the routine...we go in our bed and he goes in his. He even hangs out in his bed in the morning while I get ready sometimes. He only bothers us in the night if he's having one of these weird episodes so it's happened at night maybe 3 times in his whole life. He has issues with strangers but that's not was I was trying to describe...I was trying to describe that at home he's happy and calm 99.9% of the time with the familiar family and then SUDDENLY for no apparent reason he gets all weird and un responsive then goes back to normal.
He has a crate that he hangs out in during the day sometimes... he just got into the routine of sleeping in the dog bed at night which works fine for us. Anyways I'm just venting here because I didn't find the vets suggestions helpful at all. Oh well Monty has been quite good lately only one short episode over the past 10 days or so. We can live with that...I was just trying to understand what was going on and worried when it happened a few days in a row. |
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hexe
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Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 70
Location: NE Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:17 am Post subject: |
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I was afraid this is where you were going to wind up...as you said, I don't think either your vet or the behaviorist are able to envision what Monty is displaying, because it's such a nebulous kind of thing that it's nearly impossible to paint an accurate 'picture' of it with just words. I think I can sort of grasp what you're describing, but that's because I've had a dog that suffered a brain injury as a newborn that would 'space out' when stressed--not a seizure, but still a misfiring of the synapses that defied description and had to be seen to be understood.
You're going to need to get video of several of these episodes so both the vet and the behaviorist can see what takes place when he has these 'spells' if there's any hope in figuring out what's going on with him, I think.
_________________
Regards,
hexe
<B> "I don't give 'em hell...I tell the truth, and they think it's hell." </B><B><I> -- Harry S Truman</B></I> |
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Yvonne
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Posts: 427
Location: Alberta
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| hexe wrote: |
I was afraid this is where you were going to wind up...as you said, I don't think either your vet or the behaviorist are able to envision what Monty is displaying, because it's such a nebulous kind of thing that it's nearly impossible to paint an accurate 'picture' of it with just words. I think I can sort of grasp what you're describing, but that's because I've had a dog that suffered a brain injury as a newborn that would 'space out' when stressed--not a seizure, but still a misfiring of the synapses that defied description and had to be seen to be understood.
You're going to need to get video of several of these episodes so both the vet and the behaviorist can see what takes place when he has these 'spells' if there's any hope in figuring out what's going on with him, I think. |
Yes I think part of the problem too is that Monty is also a highly reactive dog towards strangers and dogs in some situations and I have talked to the vet about this. This however is NOT the problem I was seeking help with.....the reactivitiy is totally predictable and does respond to training. We're working on it and keep working on it. I made this whole list before the log and called it "Typical Monty" to contrast with the very small percentage of "weird Monty" The "Typical Monty" description was basically happy calm dog with his owners and reactive to strangers, loves to play, highly motivated by food/ball, and very obedient with no distractions present. The log of unusual behaviours was describing an unresponsive, terrified Monty with only his owners present, that came on suddenly for no apparent reason then stopped.
With the suggestion of using a head halter I can only imagine the behaviourist is referring to suggestions for walking a reactive dog out on the street by people and dogs. Great but that's not at all what I was asking about I never once described any on leash problems. They may have occured but they fit under where I would put "no problems today" because those things are predictable and normal for Monty and I know how to work on them.
I will try to talk to the vet on the phone this week and see if I can do better at describing what I mean. My camera is working again, maybe I can do a short video of what he's normally like then a video of one of the episodes.
As I was talking to my mom about Monty she reminded me of a time at her house when Monty was a very young puppy and he fell/jumped off of her couch onto the hardwood floor. Monty was a teeny pup so it was quite a distance for him. I wonder if that could have caused an issue in his brain? I'm happy the odd episodes haven't happened much at all over the past 2 weeks but I'd still like to understand the cause if possible. |
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